Radio Germany recently conducted an interview with the German philosopher Annemarie Schimmel. The interview was about dialogue among civilizations from the views of Hafez and the German poet Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. Following is the text of the interview which focuses on the influence of Hafez on Goethe.

Q: Why was the German poet von Goethe so influenced by Hafez rather than by other Iranian poets?

A: The answer is very simple. At that time Hafez was the only Iranian poet whose poems were translated into German. So other Iranian poems were not well-known in the West.

Hafez was introduced to the West by British orientalist Sir William Jones and Austrian orientalist Rubitzki. They translated some of the poems of Hafez into Latin. But the first person who translated Hafez's poems into German was Joseph von Hammer.

Hammer then translated all of Hafez's poems and published them in two volumes. So, Goethe had enough material to carry out research on Hafez and to know this poet.

The most interesting thing is that Hafez was introduced as a poet in Hammer's books. Hammer himself was not a poet, but he considered himself to be a poet. However, von Goethe was able to get access to new material in order to learn about Hafez. He was talented enough to recognize the beauty of the words of Hafez and his spirit from Hammer's translation.

Because of this and for some personal reasons, Goethe focused on the East, especially Hafez. The conditions of the time were favorable for Goethe to learn about Hafez. Goethe was over 60 years old at that time. In this way Goethe learned about Hafez and began to learn about the East.

Q: Would you comment on similarities between Goethe and Hafez?

A: It is difficult to judge this. The style of poetry used by Hafez differs from Western poets. As I said before, Hafez is like a pure decorated jewel with endless colors. He is among the Iranian poets whose works can not be translated easily. Because his works have different aspects.

In his book, Goethe wrote that different aspects of Hafez should be studied. Goethe knew that great secrets can not be said openly. Goethe was a kind man and several times said in his book that human beings are not permitted to openly reveal secrets, and this was observed by Hafez, too.

The meaning of Goethe's words can be found in his poem "Pain of Separation." In this poem he says that people should not tell their secrets to anyone except wise people because others will make fun of them and ridicule them. From the view of Goethe, life helps you to find values, but disclosing secrets just leads to death.

Q: What is the message of Goethe and Hafez for the world?

A: The message of Hafez is that man should behave on the basis of his wisdom and thought. His message is that mankind should observe outer laws and regulations and respect them, but he should not consider them as final laws. Hafez emphasizes that man should not pay attention to the appearances of things and should pay attention to the inner aspects of things. So, we find that meaning is the most important thing in the world.

In my opinion, Goethe learned this from the poetry of Hafez. Goethe realized that Hafez's words were not limited to a particular time. Hafez's words are not restricted by time. Hafez is a poet who belongs to all times. Hafez's poems are valid in all times and people should read the poetry of Hafez with understanding. There were different interpretations of Hafez's poetry in Europe in the 19th and even 20th centuries.

Forgive me to say that some people considered Hafez to be a man who rejected everything. Some others considered Hafez to be a drunkard, and some considered him to be a man opposed to the government. However, if a person understands Hafez, he finds that Hafez uses a secret language and only those who can understand the culture of Hafez can understand him and his poetry.

Goethe is also misunderstood in some ways. Goethe tried to lead his readers to deep insights. From Goethe's point of view, a human being is rooted in his spirit. Goethe believed in spirituality and this is the commonalty between Hafez and Goethe.

Q: From your point of view, can dialogue between Hafez and Goethe be the basis for dialogue among civilizations?

A: It would be very nice if it could be the basis for dialogue among civilizations. But the problem is that nobody in the West reads Hafez's poems. In my opinion, an oriental book which reflects Hafez and Iranian culture could promote understanding between the East and the West.

In my view, East and West are inseparable, and we can say that Goethe's understanding of Hafez and Iranian poetry and Islamic culture can act as a bridge which links East and West.